Robert Hoff has continued a family tradition of serving in the Chicago Fire Department. A third-generation firefighter, he has served the Chicago Fire Department for 30 years, rising through the ranks to his current position as assistant deputy fire commissioner for the Bureau of Operations. Hoff also shares his experience and knowledge by serving as a field instructor for the Illinois Fire Service Institute ath the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign.

The Chicago Fire Department really has taken a leap forward to become one of the more progressive metropolitan departments in the country.

From the fire side of it, [our goal] is to teach firefighters that when we go in a high-rise, we have state-of-the-art equipment. We have state-of-the-art equipment for fighting fire; we're dressed; we have ropes, radios, thermal-imaging cameras, floor plans on a laptop — we have everything we should have, but we still need to know what conditions we're going into and how to operate in those conditions.

Have you worked with technology-assisted accountability systems?

We've toyed with a few of them, especially when we did our rapid intervention training in the city and outside the city. What we found so far is that they're not perfected and there's a large cost factor. Until it's perfected, we're not going to buy into it because it's putting the firefighter's life on the line. That's the most important thing.

But when we go to push it up to buy it, it's a cost factor, and we have to say it's tested and it's effective. We went through this with the thermal-imaging cameras. It's a phenomenal tool — phenomenal. The military has tracking devices and the technology, but a lot of the technology they use that we've heard about is equipment that wouldn't hold up in the conditions we put firefighters in.

We have tried something similar to pass devices: tracking devices used for snow rescue when there are avalanches. The rescuers wear them in case they get trapped. The problem with those devices is that they're not entirely accurate inside of a structure. We're better off than a lot of departments are because of what they respond with, but it's not foolproof.

One of the most impressive speeches I've heard was out in California at a seminar. The safety division chief of the New York City fire department talked about the Father's Day fire where three firefighters were killed, right before 9/11 in the same year. He gave a fantastic speech about how Brian Fahey died. Brian Fahey was the firefighter that was on the interior of the hardware store when the explosion happened. The other two firefighters were buried on the outside. They were killed when a wall fell on them. Firefighter Fahey was at the top of a set of basement stairs and ended up in the basement after the explosion. He called three or four maydays.

They had tremendous fire conditions, a tremendous forcible-entry problem, and they had to breach walls to get to him. They did everything they could physically to get this firefighter out alive. After his death a group of doctors did an autopsy on Brian and again — this is secondhand — they studied the [carbon monoxide] levels that were in his blood. And something that just stuck out for all of us who were sitting in the room as firefighters was that when he called for the mayday, he actually ran out of air on his air cylinder. They figured that the co levels were so high in there that it put his respiratory system to sleep in less than a minute.

We're always trying to look at new ways to teach rapid intervention if someone gets in trouble. But the biggest part is being proactive so we don't get in trouble, because time is not on our side. There's always the unforeseen in a fire, like collapse of lightweight construction. In the last few months we've had four fires in lightweight-constructed buildings where the floors collapsed — fast! Two of the floors caved in, didn't collapse all the way. If not for heads-up thinking by the company officers and chief officers, we could have had tragic outcomes.

When firefighters run into a problem, doesn't it go back to personal responsibility and why some may hesitate to call for a mayday?

What I've seen in my career, and the reason I'm so adamant about it and the reason that it scares me, is because young firefighters don't have experience. It bothers me when I see a firefighters helmet with a “No Fear” sticker because I'd rather have one that says “Scared to Death” on it. I respect fire because I was burned over 30% of my body in 1984. I was in the burn unit for a long time. Until it happens to you, you don't realize. You can show people, you can tell people, but until it actually happens to them, some people don't get it.

I'm not knocking young firefighters and I'm not knocking aggressiveness, but they have to listen.… Let's learn from history because we keep repeating the same mistakes. Why? Why do we keep doing that? That's what we're trying to fix. It's very frustrating because it's not happening fast enough. My father, who was a chief on the Chicago Fire Department, was killed in the line of duty in 1962. To this day he is my hero, but you know what: I would rather have my father than a dead hero.

I think technology's fantastic. I think computers are wonderful, but they don't take the place of the human computer, and the human computer is the brain. I get passionate about this because people don't realize it. We could have people come on this job who are college graduates, and they're very, very knowledgeable, but this job — this is a quote I always use from a retired chief from New York — “No matter how the profession changes, as long as we still commit to interior searches for people and interior fire attack to suppress fire, this profession will remain a blue-collar, dirty, hands-on occupation requiring training to be of the same likeness.” That says it all.

Developments in technology have done a lot for the fire service, but firefighters also are a lot different today than even several years ago.

At the inception of the fire service, you had to be a laborer. You still have to be a laborer, but let's be educated laborers. The fire service is so complex now, and I don't mean hazmat. I don't mean the offshoots. I mean firefighting, period. We still lose over 100 firefighters a year. Buildings are built different; buildings are not made to last during a fire; materials used — plastics create five times more smoke than a piece of oak wood does. We're up against tough conditions, and that's not knocking the old timers. They had tough conditions and they never wore SCBA.

We're in conditions where fires burn hotter than people have ever been in before, so we have to analyze that and learn from it. I think we're catching up, but we still have to stay with the basics of accountability…. I've worked in suburban departments where staffing is minimum and you're getting on apparatus with different people that you're not used to working with because of callbacks. It might be someone that you're not familiar working with, and you have a Velcro tag or you have a brass tag that you put on the rig or give to the incident commander — that's one type of accountability.

The most important type of accountability is person to person on the fireground. If I'm your company officer, I'm accountable to you in every step you do, and you're accountable as a firefighter to tell me what you're doing and why you're doing it. Everything goes back to training, and that's what we're trying to push on the Chicago Fire Department.

In what way?

In May we're going to start a back-to-basics program similar to what New York did years ago … to get us to hone in on the skill level of what a firefighter, a company officer and a battalion chief — first on the scene — need to do, need to know and need to think about because we're getting away from it. Why are we getting away from it? I don't have the answer. We're trying to come back to it because that's what's killing us.

When I teach I say, “We're not going to a picnic; we're going to a fire.” If we're careful and we think, we can limit our injuries, but in some cases we're not doing that. We're still killing over 100 firefighters a year. The fire scene is not the place to show your firefighters and company officers what is expected of them. If you did not witness them training on it or you don't train them yourself, don't expect it to happen.

Physical conditioning is one of the most important things that's needed on the fireground for a firefighter. We had heard some complaints about our guys going into bunker gear. The majority of firefighters are agreeable because it's going to protect them. I've been an advocate of it. I've been wearing it for over 15 years teaching and I love it. Your workload or what you can perform isn't going to be as great because you're encapsulated. Your body core temperature is going to go up.

We were involved in all those studies, but the few that complain — most of them are the ones that don't take care of themselves. You have to have some type of personal responsibility to be physically fit. I don't care if you're 50 years old. I'm a chief officer, I have 30 years on the job and I still work out. I'm not physically pulling hose lines, but if the situation arises where something needs to be done, I want to be able to do it because you lead by example, and that's the way you have to be on this job. You may talk the talk, but can you walk the walk? Lead by example!

If you are not physically fit to perform the duties of a firefighter, then you shouldn't have a job. You know, some people have injuries that take them off, but basically, if you take care of yourself it will definitely help you in your career so you're not injured or end up with a heart attack. The leading cause [of firefighter fatalities] is still the stress of having a heart attack, and that's because of the physical things we're performing on the fireground. We're being taxed, but it shouldn't be a problem if we're in good shape and if we rotate people in and out. What frustrates me is that people complain, but what are we doing to fix what we're complaining about? I personally think it's an easy fix.

There's a strong tie between accountability and personal responsibility.

The fire service is a semi-military organization, not because we want to wear uniforms and look nice, but because when we go to an incident we have to be regimented. We have to be disciplined on the fireground. In the firehouse is where you start that behavior because once you hit the street, I'm your officer and you're a firefighter. The fire scene is not the place to hold a debate. Here is our mission; let's do it.

As an instructor, we didn't invent this business; somebody taught us. A good way to equate this is to football. Think about how long a football team practices each week. Between physical training, watching videos, looking at the playbook, they probably practice over 40 to 50 hours a week. How long do they play on Sunday? A defensive or an offensive player might play an hour and a half, if that. So the fire service has to be the same way. We have to train way, way, way more than we play because if we don't, we're going to lose. I only speak for Chicago, and especially with our commissioner because he's probably about 110 miles an hour at the rate of speed of what he wants to get done. Sometimes I think we're letting him down because we're not doing it fast enough, but we're working on going back to basics. I think it's going to save injuries — number one — and save lives, and teach people who are up and coming to be officers.

When I came on, my training was on the street. We weren't in the firehouse to train, we were training on the job. If you're not out on the street, you have to do it in the fire station: Critique fires you have been to — that is how we learn. There is no perfect fire. What it boils down to is if I'm a firefighter and I haven't been trained properly and I make lieutenant, I can read a book, I can study.… There are people who can read a book and study and take a test and be number one on it, but the other component of this job is the street.

What can you offer to the people [whose] lives are in your hands? What can you offer to them? Training! One of the most important positions in the fire service is that of a company officer … because you are directly leading people into the hot zone. Things can happen, unforeseen things, but if you don't know what you're doing you're going to get someone hurt or killed. We talk about accountability and responsibility; the first bugle is probably the most important bugle you'll ever get in the fire service.

Personal accountability then really starts in the station, not necessarily at the fire scene.

In the morning when we come in, if we haven't checked our equipment — you could be the best-trained person in the world and if you haven't checked the stuff you're supposed to use and it fails, you've failed. So roll call is a key. It's a basic to the Chicago Fire Department; it always has been and it always will be.

As a company officer, you report for duty and you're earlier than everybody. You check your own equipment. You look at the rig and then as your people start to flood in, you check them. Make sure their masks are in service and make sure they know their job assignment for the day. An engine company, for all intents and purposes, stays together other than for the outside activities like making the hydrant, manning an exposure line. They drop two lines and a lot of the times that's for an outside attack. But a truck company that splits to do a search, open the roof, take the back door, that company officer better have talked, walked and shown the people he's putting in those positions because they're not freelancing on the fireground. They're working on a team with another firefighter, but they're doing a task where that officer can't directly supervise them, and that's very important. Our lives are the most important.

Roll call is where we decide our game plan. That's where we check the equipment out. Just taking a simple thing like every day taking the suction off the front of the engine to see if there's a potato chip bag or a pop can that somebody might have thrown in the hydrant that got in the strainer, [or] taking the nozzle off every morning to make sure there's no stones in there. When you come in you check everything; you make sure it works properly for you. Those might sound like tedious, basic things that aren't important, but all that little stuff adds up when you get to a fire and they don't work.

Checking your equipment is key to making sure things go safe, and that's part of roll call. That's part of making sure things get done; that's the accountability and the responsibility. It sounds basic, but basics kill us if we don't do them.

What's the role of the company officer?

As a company officer, if I'm training you as a firefighter, I'm telling you on the fire scene that you have to be responsible to me. You have to let me know if you see something, too — two heads are better than one…. That's how we communicate. As a chief officer, as a battalion chief going to fires, my concern is [that] company officers were in the building. I'm a coach on the sidelines: If I'm a battalion chief, I'm outside the building. I'm supposed to be, but sometimes you have to go in and look and see.

For all intents and purposes the teams on the field are the company officers. They have to tell me what they see, and with the advent of the radio — one of the best tools they ever gave us — it has to be used properly. They have to tell me, if I'm outside, “Hey Chief, we've got heavy smoke conditions, we're knocking the fire, we're checking for extension, searches are being completed.” Those are all things that a company officer has to relay back to me that I can't see or hear. They must tell me, and that's accountability on the fireground.

What about accountability at your level?

I'm the assistant deputy fire commissioner of operations. My accountability level is that I need to talk to the people that work below me. The district chiefs, the rank structure, the deputy district chiefs and then the battalion chiefs have to get the message out. The message we're giving them is safety and accountability.

We can get so wrapped up in our administrative duties, but when the bell rings, administrative duties don't mean a thing. A lot of the things we do daily are important — they make the fire department function — but the bottom line is the people. If we lose our people, or if we don't have them trained, or we don't do things right, all the other fluff you can forget about.

I have to check myself every day in the job that I'm in now, that I still get out on the street, that I still go to fires. People say, “I can handle it. You don't need to come and check on me.” It's not checking on you. It's checking to make sure everything is done right and something you might not have seen. I'm not taking responsibility from them. I'm not taking the fire away from them. If something goes wrong and I'm there, I'm going to help. I'm going to make suggestions. Again, two heads are better than one. That's how we learn. That's how I learned. I had people show me.

When does it stop? It never stops. You never stop teaching and you never stop learning 'til the day you walk off the job. Never. Again, I'll go back to bugles. You have to humble yourself. You have to remember the person that's in the firehouse, that's checked equipment, that's still scrubbing the toilet, that's still doing dishes, that's still standing the night watch. You're always going to be one of them. You don't ever, ever forget where you start, and that makes you do your job.

Let's talk about the role of a safety officer.

You talk about accountability. You talk about responsibility. We've started trying to bring ourselves to where we need to be. We've started taking our battalion chiefs and putting them through a 40-hour safety officer course. This is a double-edged sword, based on working with suburban departments. Look at staffing. If I bring a safety officer to a fire, what is that person's function? It's one person just doing safety. What about the battalion chief? What about the company officer? They're safety officers. Any time you wear a bugle, any time you're put in charge, you are a safety officer. I'm not knocking departments that just have a safety officer come out on scene — I think it's important — but your resources are being dwindled down. Why can't I, as a battalion chief, if I pull out of the house, be a safety officer?

Isn't safety just assumed to be part of the job?

There's no routine fire. Again, I go back to when I got burned. That's when it humbled me. That's when I kind of woke up. I had six people I was responsible for when I got burned and I was taught to lead by example. Don't put someone else in a position you're not going to go, and I tried never to do that. I still try to do that. If you're not going to go there or you don't think it's safe, you're absolutely, positively not going to put someone in that position. Buildings can be replaced, firefighters can't. So you learn. Every day you learn on this job.

You've had a lot of experience teaching. How are firefighters changing?

I've been teaching for the [Illinois] fire academy for 20 years and about 10 years ago going out of state. One thing I've learned in teaching is the only thing that changes in the fire service is the patch. I mean female, male, black, white and Hispanic — I chuckle, because if you're into it, you're into it. If you're just there to collect a paycheck, people will figure you out real fast, but if you're into the job, it doesn't matter — race, creed, color, sex — the only thing that changes is the patch. We are no different than anybody else.

When we're out teaching at a paid-on-call or a volunteer department, these people work full-time at their other jobs to support their families. They might get paid 40 bucks a call or not get paid at all. I'd like to take the guys who like the prestige, who like the paycheck, take them down there and show them what these people do for nothing because their hearts are bigger than their bodies. That was an eye-opener for me, and that's what makes it fun to come to work every day.

What else is changing?

One of my frustrations is we get more advanced in technology and our job has moved that way. I do like some of the changes. It's going to save lives and it's good for a lot of people, but again, we must remember where we came from and what it is we do.

As easy as it is to push a button or turn a camera on, we still have to teach people the basics. We're getting away from them, and that's how we're killing people.

Technology, as far as computer equipment, is very fragile and in the fire service, I don't agree with it all the time. We are sometimes difficult people to convince, but our profession is our life, not just a job. We have to constantly train on what is most dangerous that we do. Being accountable to yourself and your brothers and sisters you work with is paramount.