If there's one thing I learned this week from FIRE CHIEF's seminar on the legal issues chiefs and chief officers can and do face, it's that most attorneys begin their responses to questions with, "It depends." This first seminar in our Keys to Leadership series was designed to offer an interactive exchange between attendees and presenters on the subject of liability.

Chief John Cummins, Stone Park (Ill.) Fire Department, opened the seminar with his experience of losing a firefighter two years ago. At that time, Cummins was acting chief who was following an apparatus when it collided with a neighboring department's apparatus responding to the same incident. An officer in the front seat was thrown 25-feet from the vehicle as it rolled.

"I'm all about seatbelts," said Cummins. "If my officer had his seatbelt on, he would be standing here with me."

Chicago Fire Department Commissioner Cortez Trotter welcomed the attendees to Chicago and announced that this summer, the Chicago Fire Department will again offer a life-safety conference on Aug. 16-19. This year's focus will be on "Large-Scale Incident, Mass Evacuations."

Other quotes:

Attorneys Andy Haber and Dennis Favaro, Favaro & Gorman, Chicago, addressed issues of discrimination and harassment:

• "You'd be surprised how many people file for discrimination for jobs that they never applied for. People assume that they are next in line and deserve the job or that they've told the chief they wanted the job. If the employer has a formal system for application and hiring, the court will not recognize the case."
• "Be very careful what you say even in jest, calling an older employee 'grandpa.' It's not a good idea to joke about a person's protective class."

Ron French, apparatus specialist, consultant and expert witness spoke of his courtroom experiences and presented "the legal process in non-lawyer talk."

• "If you have a question about the apparatus, write a letter or e-mail and ask the manufacturer.
• "In a deposition, I've been told there are [only] three answers to any question: yes, no and I don't know."

James Sinclair, attorney for the Illinois Association of Fire Protection Districts, addressed when to get your lawyers involved:

• "Don't try to shape the facts one way or another. Don't shape the story for the attorney — that's the lawyers' job. Your job is to give him the facts.
• "If it's not on paper, it didn't happen."
• "Get organized before you call a lawyer. Put it in chronological order."
• "When do you call a lawyer? Call early and call often. The earlier you get in touch with your lawyer, the sooner you deal with a problem, it goes from 'this' size rather than 'THIS' size.

Phil Stittleburg, Legal Matters columnist and attorney, discussed the importance of record-keeping and consistent testimony.

• "Depositions are taken for three reasons: Find out facts; lock in testimony so it doesn't change; perpetual testimony of a witness who may become unavailable."
• "Preparing for depositions: Know what you know and know what you don't know."
• "Avoid these phrases: I think; I suppose; I guess; frankly; to tell the truth."

Stittleburg ended his presentation with: "We are our own worst enemies. Loose lips sink ships. We talk too much on the fireground. The owner, who was grateful that we showed up, doesn't need to hear negative comments or they're on their lawyers step first thing the next morning. We don't need to plant the seed with the property owner that somehow we blew the job."

Some fire service traditions and cultures are changing, one lawyer at a time.