Mutual Aid

Union bans on volunteer firefighting raise more questions with few easy answers

 

A volunteer department in western Illinois proudly displays the phrase “Professionally Staffed by Volunteers” on its apparatus. A nearby department is smarting from the loss of a member who was prohibited from volunteering by his career department.

I thought the two-hatter debate occured only on the East Coast. But it seems to be moving west, becoming a common concern in Michigan and now in Illinois. The International Association of Fire Fighters supports clauses in employment contracts that prohibit union members from volunteering for another department in their off-duty hours. A union firefighter can be fired for volunteering in his or her own community — a restriction that could close the doors on any potential SAFER Grant applications.

RELATED: Brother vs. Brother

How many volunteer departments trained firefighters who ultimately went on to career departments? The answer is in the thousands. But these same firefighters are unable to work in some of the departments where they live. A career department in a Chicago suburb not only prohibits its firefighters from working as volunteers, it also requires its them to register with the department their off-duty employment. 

The age-old thinking career firefighters who volunteer in their communities eliminate the needs for those volunteer departments to hire full-time responders. But is that the only reason?

Joe Pawlis, a union representative in Illinois, explained that the union supports and favors full-time firefighters. Career firefighters must pass background checks and physical agility tests, and meet training and education requirements, which aren't always offered by volunteer departments. Pawlis told of a responder who could not pass the physical agility test to join a career department; volunteering allowed him to serve as a firefighter.

“Firefighting isn’t a hobby, and we are committed to the job as well as to the training that comes with it,” he said. “It’s about the quality of employees that we’re looking at,” Pawlis added.

Firefighters face dangers beyond the incident scene; research shows higher rates of cancer and other illnesses in firefighters, which has prompted more NFPA standards and presumptive laws. Do volunteers face fewer risks because they have other full-time occupations? Do career firefighters accept that the risks are just part of the job? There are no easy answers.

I recently spent some time at several volunteer and paid-on-call fire departments in communities that would have no coverage without volunteer firefighters. But they don't get to take advantage of the knowledge and expertise that career firefighters could bring. This is a problem that will not be solved quickly or easily.

I once volunteered answering phones in a surgical waiting room at a local hospital. The hospital workers didn’t like the volunteers; they felt that many of the volunteers were taking jobs that could be paid positions. Perhaps this problem is more widespread than we think.

Volunteering for community service is a very American way of life. Why limit an American’s opportunity to give back to his/her community? If your full-time job can benefit your local community, why not? Yet I can’t imagine a career firefighter watch his neighbor’s house burn as he stands by with his hands in his pockets.

What do you think? Tell us in the comment box below.

 

Discuss this Blog Entry 83

Frank (not verified)
on Jan 10, 2013

I think unions have no place in the fire service...unions generally hold everyone to the same low level of quality therefore guaranteeing that an exceptional fireman will not exceed his "brother". The unions should have no say whatsoever in whether a man can work as a volunteer elsewhere.

Glen Shelato (not verified)
on Jan 30, 2013

I agree 100% we have an excellent success rate of training Volunteers from our cadet program through Firefighter/EMT levels and having them placed in a paid union job. Our work is a benefit to the unions. If only they could remember where about 70% of the union firefighters got there start. Volunteering is a win- win situation, unions receive new trainable recruits that have had a taste of the service and brotherhood and want to make it a lifelong career and our benefit from them to volunteer back to us is better training for the volunteer, an always improving circle.

Lieutenant Dan (not verified)
on Feb 4, 2013

If you look a little deeper than just the superficial anti union talk, most career departments prohibit their employee's from participating in volunteer firefighting. An injury occurring while volunteering at a department without health coverage, or a lesser coverage, may be hidden until the employee gets to their covered job and suddenly the injury appears.

Anonymous (not verified)
on Feb 15, 2013

Can't the same be said for an injury on their part-time work while they are off? If you are dishonest you will be dishonest no matter if you are volunteering or working P/T.

Mike Keeton, Deputy Chief retired. (not verified)
on Feb 27, 2013

Exactly right. I am very surprised that this issue hasn't been argued in a court somewhere. One better, in my state (Oklahoma) a retired firefighter is not allowed to work as a firefighter for another department, or as a volunteer, in the state.

Anonymous (not verified)
on Feb 7, 2013

Unions have allowed you to enjoy the quality of life that you currently have. I would suggest that you do research on how unions helped formed this great country you live in. You also need to understand that it is not the unions that are requiring or limiting volunteerism, it is local governments dictating through contract negotiations and political pressure for perceived economic savings.

skylinefirepest (not verified)
on Feb 26, 2013

Negatory, dude....re-read the article. The union is making this rule, not the town. It goes to show that the unions don't give a tinkers damn about their community. No union has contributed one thin dime to my well being or quality of life. Unions had their place way, way back...not so much today. If you're not in it for your fellow man then you're in the wrong line of work. Period!! There are other professions where you can make more money...I'm not aware of many that equal our contribution to society and our brotherhood!

Don (not verified)
on Mar 12, 2013

Can I go volunteer at your job a few days a week so they can send you home? Reponse time saves lives and property and no part time scheme can match a staffed fire truck.

Brian (not verified)
on Apr 3, 2013

Unions dont consider the community. They are concerned only in themselves. I would take a crew of hard working unselfish volunteers over a union driven engine crew any day or night....

Hemlock Fire
on Jan 10, 2013

Being a recreational community that cannot afford a full time department we have career firefighters from several differant carreer departments within a 100 mile radius that own properties here. Most of these firefighters are restricted from volunteering with our department while in the area but most have said if we have a major incident they would be there to assist and would deal with any reprecussions later. They have also offered to assist in training the volunteers whenever possible. It's good to know there are still community minded people out there even though they must remain nameless.

Anonymous (not verified)
on Jan 10, 2013

I' ve seen some Fulltime Union Firefighting members not worth the spit they walk on, many won't daily chores or feel they don't have to. I 've done both jobs!, 40 yrs combined now! I do love it and will do it for free before and after retirement if I can help someone; we welcomed our Vol dept next door help when ever it was needed. Many full time FF's have taken other union jobs away, many are carpenters, plumbers and electricans also truck drivers etc on days off "monnlighting" and not "Union" qualified to do those job's, they will tell you they are or better, so they are hipicritical when they speak this what a joke, not a problem to do them jobs, they become so full of themself''s lucky more are not layed off with the additude they have. Not all communitys can suport a full-time staff or has the call volume as well. Pawlis sounds quite full of himself, glad he does work in my community. I'll take my Vol FF's any day, any fire!

1201
on Jan 10, 2013

as always its the career (NON PROFESSIONAL) firefighters stiring the pot. Its funny i never see volunteers bad mothing the career guys. Any way here we go some simple true facts that everyone should already know but i will state them once again.
1 Yes many if not most career guys got their start on a volie department at some fashion either working or watching
2. If communities had enough tax base they would hire full timers but they dont.so they do what this country did before there were any career postions make due with volunteers. what should they do if they have a fire wait for you to get there from the big city. (how dumb would that be?)
3.Joe Pawlis im sure the union does support and favor career firemen they are the ones paying the union dues.
4.In my department before your hired you undergo physical tests, background of criminal history and driving checks, and must pass a 240 hour training academy. The same academy that the full timers have to pass. They are also required to train after they recieve there certificates in department drills.
5.Firefighting is not a hobby for us either its a passion often consuming the majority of our at home time from our regular jobs. For hobbies we like fishing hunting and softball among other things.
6.we do face the same dangers as career people thats why we have manditory fit test on our masks and pulminary function test at our physicals. we also have exposure policies, respirator policies, just like your career departments.
7. i have a retired full timer as my training chief and assistant he somehow figured out how to function as a volunteer again after his retirement from the career department. needless to say he was a volunteer before he was hired full time.

I am appalled at the arrogance of SOME of the career firefighters. It is bonifiably ass nined for you to set there and believe that you put your pants on any differant then a volunteer, and word to the wise you should probably change that way of thinking before you end up hurting yourself by thinking your better then you really are.
This is what i like to go by "an amature trains till they get it right a profesional trains till they cant get it wrong" that by the way is on our training room wall that we are required to visit at mandatory meetings. Just because they pay you a career wage does not by no means make you a professional. And just fyi our little rural department was asked to go into a metropolitan area for a homeland security training given a scenario the metro personell could not figure out what to do when all the fire hydrants in the city were dry from a terrorist attack they all ran out of water during there operations. One of there newest employees figured out they could draft from a river he was a new hire a previous volunteer. And our least trained people showed them how to do it so dont tell me what you think you know and how much better you are then us be PROFESSIONAL and remember we are all brothers and do the same damb job.

Anonymous (not verified)
on Jan 21, 2013

Well said, a one side conversation by Mr. Pawlis. I have been an active volunteer for 36 years and currently serve as chief. I have always pushded constant reducation and education and health awareness to provide a safer fire fighter. I also have sen paid and volunteers who could not climb out of an open box, so it works both ways!

Anonymous (not verified)
on Feb 3, 2013

Very well stated. You just described my Firefighting career, I could not have wrote it in better words. Your last sentence is my favorite quote.
Thank you Brother.

T Kobes (not verified)
on Feb 27, 2013

Amen 1201!! Very well stated. I have retired from my 33 year career job, Firefighter, and remain at my 40 year second job, Firefighter. Or was that the other way around??

WA Vol. Firefighter (not verified)
on Jan 10, 2013

As a volunteer firefighter I have experienced this same effect in Washington. My agency borders 3 major fire agencies with 4 others within commuting distance. These agencies employ over 400 Full time paid career staff. It is estimated that there are at least 30 to 40 of these firefighters live within my agencies service area. If all of these firefighter volunteered with my agency it would double my department roster enhance the training and leadership. More importantly the level of service to the residents would improve through short response times and quicker resolution of emergencies.

In addition to the staff it can provide management issues as well. Firefighters and more particularly officers tend to lean toward what they know from their employers this can some times create internal conflict between those who volunteer only and those volunteer / paid in the fire service.

In the same light i have seen it work well. I have had members of career departments go directly against their unions and volunteer even though they know it could cost them severely. When I asked them why they do it, the response was "Because it is the right thing to do!"

All in all I am a big supporter of Career staff volunteering in their local communities and sharing their knowledge, skills, and experience with local community volunteers. Providing a high quality, effective firefighting force, that stretches the tax payer dollar the farthest.

glogovsky
on Jan 11, 2013

The only valid reason I could accept for career departments not allowing their members to volunteer is if they get hurt at their volunteer department and can't work their fulltime job.

Anonymous (not verified)
on Jan 11, 2013

And yet we are allowed by the unions to work as electricians, roofers, truck drivers, etc. I resent my employer not allowing me to volunteer where I live. I got my start volunteering.

Anonymous (not verified)
on Jan 11, 2013

The same can be said of the fulltime FF who works as a carpenter, electrician , EMT on a private or hospital based ambulance serevice,Etc..

Anonymous (not verified)
on Jan 15, 2013

What makes getting injured serving their community as a volunteer firefighter and unable to perform their fulltime job any different than a career firefighter getting hurt on their days off at their part-time job (possibly encroaching on another union trade) or getting injured partaking in a hobby or sports activity??? Injured and missing one's FT work is the same - irregardless of the reason why.

Anonymous (not verified)
on Jan 30, 2013

There's a better chance of getting hurt playing softball than firefighting for a paid-on-call fire department. Should they not allow their union firefighters to do that either?

J. Allen (not verified)
on Jan 11, 2013

This is another outdated policy that should be taken off of the books at every level. I am very pleased to no longer live in a union state so we don't have to worry about a few select people in a union office telling us what they believe is best for the community when it comes to firefighting. The continued practice of prohibiting career firefighters to volunteer is disgraceful and could even be classified as unethical. If that behavior makes a Fire Chief or union official proud then that tells you something specific about the person or the organization. Stay safe.

Anonymous (not verified)
on Jan 11, 2013

Two questions here: 1. How many career firefighters work on their off days as plumbers, carpenters, heavy equipment operators, etc? The ugly truth to the 2 hat rule is that the unions feel volunteer and part-time positions take away career jobs. So the second question is how many career firefighters take away career positions from plumbers, carpenters, electricians, etc???? Don't call the pot black if you are a kettle.

jd
on Jan 11, 2013

I find this article very disturbing and it really does not make any sense. I have worked all sides of the house. Career, Combination, Volunteer, Administration, Industrial and Third Party. I have never been asked for a union card when responding to someone's emergency. I know many firefighters who are union who work and give back to their communities as volunteers. I cannot understand why the union even cares about one of their "Professional Career" personnel giving back to their community. I don't see the union standing in the way of a "Professional Career" firefighter working an off duty job as a truck driver, carpenter, plumber or any other trade. It would appear to me that the union really needs the exposure of its membership to the general public with the beating they have been taking lately. Makes you wonder what the union is all about? Most think all they care about is extracting dues from their membership to support their leadership and not the people they serve and work for. Maybe they should take a look in Websters at the meaning of "professional".

Anonymous (not verified)
on Jan 11, 2013

What you do in your spare time cannot be infringed upon by anyone. Volunteering to help a community, especially a small, poor one with insufficient people or taxes to support a full time fire service, is the backbone of this country. Unions blackmailing their members so that they cannot assist their local, small communities is criminal and should be illegal. Unions have become power obsessed, political machines that grind up anyone who would dare to disagree with them. The people in small communities lives are at stake and their only hope many times are volunteers. Unions are out of control.

Anonymous (not verified)
on Jan 11, 2013

My volunteer fire department in Ohio has been serving for 163 years and in the past 15 years have been a porthole for 8 firefighters who have gone full-time. We also have to IAFF union firefighters in our ranks and are glad that the volunteering issue is only limited to a few departments.

I think the issue is that the volunteer fire service outnumbers the paid departments on 3-1 bases and that it is a direct link to the founding of our country. Ben Franklin didn’t found the paid fire service did he? Maybe the issue is because, some volunteer fire departments are better trained, or they have nicer trucks, or people appreciate the fact that they volunteer, who know, but I this I do know, when a person calls 911 and fire truck shows up, they do not care whether the crew is paid or not. They probably didn’t notice whether the truck says volunteer either. All they care about is that WE showed up and helped them in their time of need, and after all, isn’t that what it’s all about? I think the Unions (IAFF need to step back and take a look at their regulations. If the Volunteer Fire Service goes away, (because communities can’t afford a paid dept.) they may wait a long time for mutual aid…… Just my two cents.

Anonymous (not verified)
on Jan 11, 2013

I am a recently retired career Captain of 31 years with a large east coast fire department. I was a volunteer before, during, and after, my career as a paid firefighter. In my department volunteering was allowed if it was in a department that had no paid/career personnel. I know of no departments in my state that do not allow there firefighters to volunteer in this situation but I am not saying some don't. Though I never believed I should be told what I can do with my off time I agree with the policy that career firefighters should not be volunteering in departments with paid/career personnel. Another issue is the cities and towns that employ career firefighters do not want them to volunteer stating that the firefighter could be afflicted with cancer or a heart related injury that the city could be libel for as an on the job injury when it could be possible to have occurred while volunteering. It is not all about being banned from volunteering by the unions.

Anonymous (not verified)
on Jan 11, 2013

Yes Joe supports career jobs but not every community can afford a paid fire deartment. FYI Joe, my department requires a comprehensive physical, drug screen, back ground and all members must complete FF 1 pro board, Haz mat ops, cpr, first aid and blood borne pathogine training before coming off probation. And Joe what do you do for your community other than bitch?

CPA/volunteer firefighter (not verified)
on Jan 11, 2013

Many professionals offer their expertise free of charge to their communities. Doctors & nurses volunteer at free clinics. Attorneys and CPAs volunteer and do pro-bono work for charities. What's the difference. This is still a free society. Unions and governments need to understand they serve at our pleasure.

Fire Commissioner Joe Addio (not verified)
on Jan 13, 2013

What is ironic is how many of these career firefighters chose to live in communities protected by these volunteer firefighters. If the Fire Service was really about safety, the unions would allow their members to be there for the volunteers and teach them the safe way of doing things. In n eastern State, if a career firefighter is a member of a volunteer fire department and that department get called upon to cover a town that has a career fire department, the career/volunteer is told not to respond by their union. So let's send the "inferior" firefighters to area without the assistance of a career member who could watch their back. I think it is a form of discrimination.

Anonymous (not verified)
on Jan 31, 2013

There you go again, thinking the career guy is a better firefighter than the volunteer. I do not recall that there is a different state certification for volunteers versus career firefighters.

Anonymous (not verified)
on Feb 26, 2013

If you think there is no difference in certification standards, then I have some ocean front property in Arizona that I would like to interest you in! Just check out the standards for the State of Texas and attempt to make that bogus statement again.......

Anonymous (not verified)
on Mar 4, 2013

Do check them out... they may be governed by different agencies but now both sets match.. and if you dig deep enough, the standards for the volunteers have been lessened to follow the career standards.

Walt (not verified)
on Jan 14, 2013

Many paid departments rely on volunteer departments for mutual aid. Likewise, some volunteer departments rely on paid departments for mutual aid as well.
Having thought about this, I can't understand why a union would deny someone from volunteering at another department. Do they deny the opportunity to volunteer entirely or just to fire departments? Perhaps it is the thought about potentially having someone injured at a call and being unable to work. Of course that is the same thought of every employer who has a firefighter working for them.
One of the main problems I have is when it comes to the ISO. They simply perpetuate the problem, possibly due to union influence. If I receive a paycheck from the department I am worth the same as three firefighters who do not. I know many firefighters who are volunteers that are as, if not better, firefighters than I am.
There are no easy answers but the cause of the problem is the similar to one that affects our entire society. People have forgotten the fact that the needs of the many outweighs the needs of the few. If each of us sacrifices a little it can make a lot of difference collectively.

Anonymous (not verified)
on Jan 21, 2013

SO: If I am a "paid-on-call" ff, is this a pt job NOT volunteering? 68% of this country's ffs are volunteer/paid-on-call. If every ff was a union member, that would quadruple the union income. Whose pocket would that supplement? How many career ffs who drive the rig can man the nozzle? Volunteers have to be more schooled and trained because they have to be able to do it all. Our volunteer department (retired 28 years w/10 as Chief) was schooled in cutting electrical power when needed. MAJOR fire and I told ff to cut power at the utility pole. Careeer ff happened by and stopped and told ff to cut wires at building, leaving potentially "hot" wires (electrical feed-back?) lying on the fire ground. How friggin stupid is that. Oh; did I mention he was a career capt.??? Give me a dedicated volunteer/paid-on-call any day.

Anonymous (not verified)
on Jan 22, 2013

I am the Chief of a combination department that simply cannot afford to provide my small town with a fully staffed engine company 24/7, so I have to rely on volunteers. I don't use volunteers instead of creating full-time positions, my little community doesn't have the tax base to make those positions full-time. As it stands, 20% of my volunteers are full-time firefighters with other agencies and over half of my personnel work (either paid or volunteer) with at least one other public safety agency, be it EMS, law enforcement, or another fire department. If all of those people were limited to only one public safety agency, that would be very detrimental to our entire county.

I used to be a volunteer firefighter in another state and we had a neighboring department whose union actually blocked a full-time firefighter (who got his start as a volunteer) from joining our all-volunteer agency. However, that full-time, unionized department still relied on our all-volunteer department as an automatic aid company for all working fires. Go figure!

Anonymous (not verified)
on Jan 24, 2013

To me this issue is akin to looking your mother in the face and telling her you're ashamed she birthed you. Keep it up IAFF and you'll usher your members into non-existence as you price yourselves out of relevance and jobs...

Anonymous (not verified)
on Jan 28, 2013

Recently, one of the larger municipal departments in our area implimented this policy. The same department has for the first time in the last 30+ years began using Mutual Aid from surrounding Paid on call departments. The union actually sold their City fathers into making this a requirement. My Department does not have any two hatters for this department however, we have one form another area department. The interesting part is that the Paid on call deparmtnets send personnel to additional training sessions while the full time union deparmtents have all but cut out their training budgets. The very reason that the union department used to justify their position. The City Fathers in the union community stated in their press release "These volunteer or on call departments rely on the city to train their firefighters" The interesting part is the department implimented a policy where candidates must have Firefighter 1 & Firefighter 2 to apply" In our state you must be a member of a department to recieve this type of certification.
My deparmtent requires firefigter 1&2, Hazmat awareness and operations, RIT certifications, and Medical First responder. In order to be an officer we require fire officer 2. In this union department they require Firefighter 2 and Medical first responder as well as the Hazmat Awareness and Operations. Their Officers are not required to obtain Fire Officer certifications, the Rit Certification is not arequirement for their department.
I know many Union Firefighters who are two hatters and will have to leave their on call departments soon, also I know of many others who hold Electrician, truck driving and construction jobs. I also find it funny that the City has no problem with police officers, public works employees and other City union positions who are members of other departments.

Otter Side (not verified)
on Jan 28, 2013

There are two credible reasons that Cities and unions banned their members from second departments. The first is to ensure the dedication towards the job you are paid to do. Don't get me wrong, there are volleys that are dedicated too, but when you are paid by X, X expects your undecided attention. The second and really the bigger item is WC issues. As the instances for heart and lung issues grew in the late 80s and early 90's for firefighters, the "he/she didn't get that on the job here " mentality grew. As we are out to protect our own, a great majority of Cities and unions recognized that exclusivity towards one department made the ability for work comp claims to be easily decided, rather than two municipalities pointing fingers at the other as legal bills piled up and the injured employee couldn't work because nobody was paying.

Anonymous (not verified)
on Jan 30, 2013

Interesting, you chose not to address the conflict that exists when firefighters take second jobs - unrelated to their dept. - nor do you address the right of the individual to make a choice even when it could jeopardize their ability to receive wc. They should have the ability to make that choice not the unions. Make no mistake, the reason the IAFF has taken this stance is is to strong arm communities into hiring full time career firefighters irrespective of its financial ability to do so. Just another example of the IAFF advancing a policy position under the guise of safety when, in fact, it's simply a method for increasing membership at all expense.

Anonymous (not verified)
on Jan 30, 2013

As far as physical ability, my volunteer department recognized for many years that some volunteers were not up to the physical demands of the fireground. However, they also serve who run the Service Company filling air bottles, running rehab, serving hot coffee or cold water, and doing a hundred & one fire service jobs that free up the more able bodied to pack up and go in. It's not a union responsibility to match jobs to physical capability, ultimately it falls to the Chief of the department who is responsible for everything the department does or fails to do.

tree68 (not verified)
on Jan 30, 2013

If vollie departments are indeed "stealing jobs" from potentially career staffed departments, that's one thing. But the odds of most departments in my area hiring any career staff are slim and none. It's a BS rule.

Neel (not verified)
on Jan 30, 2013

Unions have no place in any government services, much less where security of life and proferty are concerned. Can you imagine a unionized military where the gererals have to answer to the union steward to mount an offensive.

Anonymous (not verified)
on Feb 7, 2013

Everyone has to answer or get permission from someone to do most things, last time I checked I believe that 90% of all law enforcement in this country is unionized, how many volunteer law enforcement departments exist in this country? check it out!

Anonymous (not verified)
on Feb 26, 2013

Quite a few, so get your facts straight

TomMedic82
on Jan 30, 2013

Sounds like along the way someone forgot that the main role of a firefighter was to help others. Apparently people only go to recruit school in order to make lots of money? IAFF appears to be the problem here in the "us and them" battle... It's not the people (career) it's the machine of the union itself... Personally, I care not if you are paid or volunteer, it's all about ability to perform. The definition of a firefighter in 2013 should be that you are a professional, meaning properly trained and certified. No matter what system is in place , the goal is that we ensure that at 2am when someone is not breathing or a home is on fire, then professionals who are trained, certified, and able to perform handle the emergency in a efficient and proper manner. I say put standards in place with respect to physician ability, training, education, etc and implement them across the board... What's the difference in letting a "not so in shape" or older volunteer "run the pump" in a rural department in comparison to transferring the guy who "gets a little short of breath during morning exercise" to the inspections or prevention division in a career department? Just some thoughts... We are our own worst enemies... The answer here is quality training and education across the board.

Anonymous (not verified)
on Jan 30, 2013

Once again its a simple matter of following the money... Union does what they can to force community to have to create paid positions-->community ends up hiring (fill in the blank)--> union comes in and attempts to organize new (fill in the blank)-->union increases membership and gets resulting increase in funds from the mandatory dues the members have to pay-->Pawlis gets a nice raise and gets to drive around spouting even more nonsense. THAT is the bottom line! Illinois is NOT a right to work state, so if the union can force an issue to where someone has to join, the individual has no choice in the matter. The union mouthpiece will always go to the media and talk about "we are concerned about our members" "Its because we are worried the non-union ones aren't trained" and every other talking point from the union playbook, but the bottom line is without members the union will not survive, so it will do whatever it can to create more members, and will consider it an insult if a member chooses to do something for free that the member normally does that the union gets to collect dues on.

@ Other Side, go back and get another set of talking points from the playbook, because 1) when a career firefighter is at his paid position, they DO have his undecided attention, when he is away, his time is his time. Whether he sides as a plumber, or even a unpaid youth counselor, it has no bearing on anything. He would be just as likely to be distracted by one of those as he would to be distracted by being a volunteer... but wait you say, what if there's a major catastrophe where he lives? You really think whether he is a volunteer or not is going to cause him to not be concerned? As for the workers comp, State and Federal laws (which you should know) already require depts (including volunteer depts) to provide coverage, so anything that happens while he is functioning as a volunteer will be covered by that dept, and as for a long term issue, insurance is just as likely to fight and say they are only responsible for X% of an issue if the person does anything outside of the department, and to claim otherwise is an insult to those who have had to fight for disability and never did day one as a volunteer!

Anonymous (not verified)
on Jan 30, 2013

Most of the comments here I've seen center on the union versus volunteer firefighters. Another thing to consider is the municipality that employs the fulltimers. My employer requires us to record any other employment. Their biggest concern is worker's comp issues....so they don't have to pay if you get hurt somewhere else.

Anonymous (not verified)
on Jan 30, 2013

The bottom line there is no real difference between volunteer firefighters and career firefighters other then a paycheck and better response times. Most volunteer companies train as much as or in some cases more then many fully career departments. Volunteers and Career firefighters both go into burning building (I'm not a scientist but last time I checked fire doesn't act differently for volunteers then it does for career firefighters), cut people out of cars, rescue people in all kinds of the same situations. Both wear the same gear and use the same types of apparatus. So the "job" is no different. No one can reasonably argue that.
So lets look at there other issue. Both vol and Career staff have over weight, out of shape members. Both have members that are in great shape and both have members in between. So again there is no real difference there.
With the exception of city fire departments many career departments are smaller towns that used to have volunteers like most of your out there. These towns get far less calls then cities, that's why I am not including them. So these smaller town career departments get pretty much the same call volume as the volunteer department in the town next to them or even less then many.
I have been a vol for 25 years, 8 as a career firefighter and I've been on combination departments as well. I have seen some small career departments that are excellent and then there are some that do nothing but truck checks, clean trucks and do a couple assigned chores per shift. Most of them are big on this union issue. But seriously I would be very upset as a tax payer in those town if I knew what little I was getting for my taxes.
Anyway my point is Pawlis is like many other guys that have forgotten where they came from and there really is not major difference between volunteer and career firefighters if you really look at it. Keeping guys from volunteering in their home towns is just crazy. In my opinion it is obviously a ploy to beef up the number of career members out there by unions. Take away volunteers from an already dwindling volunteer base and what happens? You get more career guys. Just my opinion and view on it. like it's been said already in here, we are all brothers in the service.

JKL (not verified)
on Jan 30, 2013

Someone should find out if it is even constitutional to have such a clause. It would be an interesting supreme court case under freedom of association.

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What's Mutual Aid?

Mutual Aid is a blog of news and views from FIRE CHIEF staff and industry experts -- a virtual conversation about the issues important to you.

Contributors

Janet Wilmoth

Janet Wilmoth grew up in a family of firefighters in a Chicago suburb. She first worked for FIRE CHIEF magazine in 1986 as an associate editor and also served as FIRE CHIEF's international...

Mary Rose Roberts

Mary Rose Roberts is a senior editor at Penton Media, with a focus on wireless technology, public safety and fire leadership for FIRE CHIEF, Urgent Communications and Wildfire magazines. She also...
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